Transfer Nation Talks Community

April is #CommunityCollegeMonth! To celebrate, Caitlyn Potter Glaser joins host Heather Adams to dive into NBC’s beloved comedy Community—one of the rare TV shows centered on a community college and its students. Drawing on Heather’s lived experience as a community college student and Caitlyn’s analysis of higher‑education scholarship, we unpack Season 1 as a story full of heart, irreverent wit, and—at times—troubling jokes at the expense of our favorite study group.

Together, we ask: Why does pop culture about higher education matter? Whose stories are told on screen—and whose are not? Does Community genuinely celebrate community college students, mock them…or both? And what might the show look like if it premiered in 2026? So grab some popcorn and join us for a thoughtful, funny conversation about representation, higher education, and what stories we’re still waiting to see on TV.

 Community was created by Dan Harmon and aired on NBC from 2009–2014, and then on Yahoo! Screen in 2015. It is the work of Krasnoff Foster Productions and NBC Productions. 

Want more representation in your pop culture? As mentioned in this episode, check out the Catalyst Awards for first-gen and non-traditional learner representation in media.

Show Credits
Host | Dr. Heather Adams
Producers | Rhian Waterberg, Emily Kittrell
Sound Editing | Abraham Urias 

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Talk soon!
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Transcript

[Intro Theme from Community]

Heather: Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Transfer Nation Talks podcast. I couldn't be more excited for today, because I have been dying to talk about the show Community, for probably obvious reasons to this audience, the community college transfer experience changed my life, as you know.

And our guest today has watched the show, the first season, for the first time, and so she's in a perfect position to start diving into, kind of, the complexities and the importance of a show like this, and how it reflects higher education in media and pop culture. And it also brings together two of my loves, so my organization, Transfer Nation, and another organization of the founder of called My Tribe Media, which looks at first-gen transfer and adult learner narratives in media and pop culture. This is just, like, an explosion of passions of mine. So, I'm gonna welcome Caitlyn Potter Glaser to the stage today for this conversation.

[Transfer Nation Intro]

Welcome to Transfer Talks from Transfer Nation. I'm your host, Heather Adams, founder of Transfer Nation, and a lifelong transfer advocate. Here at Transfer Nation and Transfer Talks, we believe that transfer success is everyone's responsibility, no matter your role, title, or department. Today's students and learners, they're mobile. They're diverse, and they're complex. But our systems have not kept up. The results? Too many learners facing hidden barriers, lost credits, and unclear paths. This podcast is about changing that. In each episode, we'll spotlight real conversations with professionals, learners, and partners from across higher education. People you might not think of as transfer folks, but who all play a part in helping learners arrive. So let's break down those silos, challenge assumptions, and reimagine what transfer can be, and who is accountable for realizing that success. This is Transfer Talks, and you are right on time. Let's talk transfer.

Heather: She is a Transfer Nation podcast producer, part of the leadership team of Transfer Nation, and also a PhD student studying higher education at the University of Denver. Caitlyn, welcome! 

Caitlyn: Yay! I'm so glad to be doing this today, and so glad to be chatting with you, Heather. 

Heather: Me too! So, tell me how this conversation came about for you. What was the context behind getting together and bringing this up, and then having me be like, yes, yes, yes, let's talk?

Caitlyn: Absolutely. So, as you mentioned, I'm studying higher education at the University of Denver, and this past winter quarter, I had the pleasure of taking one of our seminar classes, all doctoral students have to take a seminar, which is a real opportunity for the faculty to develop a course that really ties into their interests and always gives you a unique vantage point on higher education. So, this quarter, I took the seminar Higher Education in Film and TV, taught by Dr. Marc Johnston Guerrero. He is especially interested in how students and characters within higher education are represented in pop culture. He's done a lot of research on multiraciality and kind of blended identity, mixed identity students, and thought, let's explore this in a full quarter seminar, as inspired by some of his colleagues and mentors. So, our final project, we were asked to do a media analysis of a piece of media, and we could really get creative, and so I thought, here's my opportunity to bring all my thoughts about Community to Transfer Nation, and help me understand what this show is all about, and what it's saying about community college students and transfer students. So that's why I'm here today. Help me understand Community, Heather! 

Heather: Well, well, let's help each other, because there is so much in this show, and even just the first season, even just the first episode, right? I was rewatching it this weekend in preparation for this conversation, and I just… I was just… I don't know, I was taken aback, actually, re-watching it, so I'm excited to get to, like, dive into it, because I had a lot of thoughts, and I think maybe we should start with that kind of big, question of why we should critically engage TV and film through the lens of higher education, right? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I think I've talked to you about how important… I think this is actually kind of an overlooked influence that TV and film have on higher education, because it really shapes the way that we think about college. And most folks, other than you and I, maybe, are not reading higher education, you know, reports and policy and research briefs, but they do watch TV and movies. And the stories about students, and college, and they're reflected everywhere, and so I think that, you know, if you're… looking at college, but only experience you're having, or the only influence you're having, is through this lens, or it's the most predominant lens that you're having, and you'll only see stories with the 18-year-old residential experience than the transfer, adult learner, people not taking a traditional route, you can feel invisible in that world. Why do you think is important? Is that part of what resonated with you, too? 

Caitlyn: Yeah, absolutely. Something we talked a lot about this quarter was just, Whose stories are represented in higher education, and who is left out? As you just pointed out, a lot of times that more non-traditional, post-traditional learner is left out. Oftentimes the emphasis is not only on the 18 to 20 traditional student, but also on the 18- to 20-year-old white student, male student, not first-generation student, student who goes right into a four-year institution and stays at that four-year institution, and we just all know that that's not the typical experience anymore of people moving through higher education. 

Also, a lot of popular media, especially that we look at in the U.S., is created in and stays in the United States, too. So then you lose a little bit of the international perspective, and what does higher education look like without… outside of the U.S., or maybe embedded in different cultures, too? But it's so funny when you talk about that, we… we watch TV, we watch film, there have been so many movies. And so many TV shows that are either explicitly set in higher education, like Monsters University, Higher Learning, and a lot of TV shows out there, too, that have big plot lines, you know, like, thinking of the Gilmore Girls, or, you know, Grown-ish, where students go to college. But then there's also a lot of media that kind of just rubs into higher education. I just… I think about Ross's experience on Friends becoming a faculty member, or you know, just little things like that. So, that's one thing that came up a lot for us, is, like, higher ed, what makes something a higher ed show? It's so broad, because it just touches so much of our lives, really, in this media. I couldn't agree more. And we don't see this much. 

Heather: All those shows you mentioned, I mean, there are these moments, right? And I try to spotlight those. The team at… My Tribe Media tries to spotlight some of those. You know, those shows like Last Chance U, or Cheer, or, you know, I think there was… there were a couple of episodes of various shows where somebody does go to community college, but it's not the core focus. It's usually at a prep school, or an Ivy League kind of, you know, like, what's the one, Felicity, or whatever, and it's ever… it's all… right? I mean, I'm not dating myself, obviously, but there are a lot of current ones on right now, too, that really just don't… they go… they gloss over that, or there might be one student who's like, scholarship student. But it's not what… it's not… that's supposed to represent something, but it's not fleshed out, and it's not a re… it's not a real narrative of a human being, right? 

So, you had asked me, kind of like, about the show Community, specifically, and the kind of our relationship to it, right? How did you come to the show? Like, what… was it just for the purposes of this, or were you like, I've always wanted to watch this, I never did? 

Caitlyn: Totally. So, I wasn't able to watch it while it was airing. That's back when I worked a second shift, didn't have Tevo or anything, so, you know, if you missed it, you missed it. But people had always told me, you'd like this show, its humor, its irreverent style, it would it would be totally up your alley. And so, it's just always been on my list. And then, once I started working in higher education and working with transfer students specifically, I just kept thinking, you know what, that's a show I should go back to, considering my work with and my love for community college students.

For this seminar course, one of the options we could stream for, like, the first, second week of class was the pilot episode of Community, and I thought, here's my chance, here we go. Now I can finally see what everyone's talking about. I can finally understand Dónde está a la biblioteca, you know?

[clip of “Dónde está a la biblioteca” rap from the show]

And then I just watched that first pilot episode and thought, okay, no, I need to watch more of this. I need to understand what it's saying, and then this can be my final project where I really dive into it. So, um, I watched the whole first season. Haven't watched past that yet, so we're gonna keep this conversation to just the first season. One thing that comes up a lot is, like, as we mentioned, whose stories aren't told, and really the community college as a sector doesn't show up much in media, so I'm like, here's a really great opportunity to see how this area is portrayed, 

And yeah, so I just dove right in, and then I'm like, I know Heather loves this show. Let's… let's get into it, let's talk about it. Well, we have a good six episodes. If we've got six seasons, or five seasons, I forget how many seasons. 

[clip from show:] Six seasons and a movie!

Caitlyn: Yeah, and a movie, that's right! We'll have to keep that conversation going. Right, right. That's really interesting. So you came to it through… so I actually didn't watch it when it was on either. I was in community college when it was on, interestingly. I was… I knew about the show, I never… I never got the chance to watch it until a lot later, until I was doing this work with Transfer Nation and kind of looking for those stories. I was actually in my transfer period of time at SMC and UCLA, transferring to UCLA right at the time that the show was on, but I do… I did know that there was something about the show about, kind of, folk… people finding each other, right? People from all walks of life, people from, and that was definitely my experience as an adult learner going back to school. I felt really comfortable at community college, because there were lots of different types of folks from all over the world. Like, I had a group of friends, and we had… one of our friends was from Brazil and was an international student who wanted to transfer, and then we had Rob, who was a veteran, and then we had DeeDee, who had 3 kids. And there was me and who's coming back second career kind of thing. So, we were this kind of, like, hodgepodge, thrown-together group. And so I always had this kind of fantasy that, oh, this… maybe this show is sort of like my experience. So I… I probably should have watched it during that time. Maybe it would have maybe it would have been enlightening. Because that would have been really close to it. But I wasn't… I wasn't able to. 

Caitlyn: No, that makes sense. It used to be just hard to catch things, because we didn't have the power of streaming. You know, that's so interesting that it does sound like your experience almost mirrored what happens on the show. Something I just want to clarify, too, my relationship to this kind of media. So, as much as I love transfer students, as much as I am a transfer champion, I myself was never a transfer student, and I was never a community college student. And I've done some adjacent work with community colleges, but really, what activated my advocacy in this area was working as an admissions counselor at four-year school. And, you know, doing the work to build those partnerships and reach those students, and engage with Phi Theta Kappa and, you know, do all that work, but yet, like, I am kind of an outsider/insider, so to speak, so I just want to clarify that. So, when I'm watching Community. This is a sector and a group that I feel very…not protective toward, but just very you know, ready to correct any kind of misunderstandings, bust myths, and end stigmas, even though it's not reflective of my own personal experience.

Heather: We need it inside or outsiders. We need a different perspective to come in, you know, we needed allies everywhere, but it's also… it's really interesting that you frame it that way, because I think one of the biggest things, and we'll get into the show in specifics, I know, but the few times you do hear about community colleges and shows, it's usually, like, a stereotype, right? It's usually, like, sort of a… that's where you go when you can't get into “real college,” or, like, that kind of deflect the deficit model, so that's why we need allies everywhere, who are shifting that narrative and busting myths every way they go. 

Caitlyn: And unfortunately, some of those stereotypes represented in media about community colleges, I've heard in real life, too. So, let's… let's bust some myths.. 

Heather: Oh, man. Yeah, let's do that. Okay, so do you want to introduce Community for those that maybe aren't familiar with it, or who need a refresher? Because it was on a while ago, like, 2009-2014? 

Caitlyn: At least a show on NBC, and it premiered in 2009, and if you're thinking about this in terms of what else was going on TV, The Office was running, Parks and Rec was running, and so it was kind of in that same block of time. It was created by Dan Harmon, who based a lot of this on his own experience attending Glendale Community College, and I was trying to wrap my arms around this, so I listened to an episode of Entertainment Weekly's Binge Podcast where he was reflecting on it, and it's so funny that you touched on the characters, because he said that's what really inspired him, was just the really diverse crew of people he met and the friends, and he could speak to certain people in his life he based each character on, too. So he was really, like you, really appreciating just the relationships and the people he met, and a lot of that informed community, which, when you watch it, you can really see that that was his inspiration. 

Heather: Yeah, I heard a rumor that he actually went and enrolled in the course to, like, impress his wife or something, because they were in the Spanish class together. I don't know, I don't know the truth behind it, and that was the most life-changing experience for me in community college, is where I found my people, right? Really, truly. And so I'm glad to hear him talk about that aspect of it, because I do think he eventually gets there in the series. The first episode got a lot of zingers, and so I feel like the long game of the show is to show this kind of beautiful human side behind the experience, which I think is what he's talked about. Sounds like, from what you listen to. But sometimes that's exactly what you see on the screen, at least not for the first episode, so if you are planning on watching this show, maybe watch beyond the first episode. 

Caitlyn: Absolutely. Well, one thing about the first episode is it introduces us to the full group of students who are part of this study group. So just real quick, just to give the listeners an idea of this diverse group of students we're talking about, I'll just kind of name them here. 

We have Jeff, who's played by Joel McHale. He was a practicing attorney, but then at the very beginning of the show, we find out he was disbarred because his bachelor's degree from an Ivy League university turns out to be fake.

[clip from show] Jeff: The State Bar has suspended my license. They found out my college degree was less than legitimate. 

Duncan:Well, I thought you had a bachelor's from Columbia?

Jeff:… and now I have to get one from America.

Caitlyn: So he enrolls at Greendale Community College so he can do it the right way. 

But then we've got Britta, played by Jillian Jacobs. She's in her late 20s. She's had kind of a wild life so far, but she ends up kind of being the voice of reason, and takes care of a lot of folks in the group. 

[clip from show] Britta: Alright, you wanna know my deal? I dropped out of high school because I thought for some reason it would impress Radiohead. 

Caitlyn: Jeff has a huge crush on her, which prompts him to create the study group for their Spanish class so he can try to spend more time with her. 

But when news of this study period gets out, Annie, played by Allison Brie, gets really excited and wants to join so she can practice her Spanish.

[clip from show:] Annie: You know why I had to find out about this group on accident? 

Caitlyn: Annie had dreams of going straight into a four-year school, but she was so high pressure on herself it led her to abuse Adderall. She lost her four-year scholarship, goes to rehab, and then tries to get a fresh start when she enrolls at Greendale Community College. 

Another great character that I think people in our audience might recognize from the memes is Troy, played by Donald Glover. 

[clip from show] Troy: Well, this teenage boy is a quarterback and a prom king!

Caitlyn: He was a star football player in high school, but after an injury, he lost his athletic scholarship due to his four-year school, and so then enrolls at Greendale. But like a lot of athletes, he does decide to get involved with football at Greendale Community College to keep his love for the game going. 

The group also welcomes Shirley, played by Yvette Nicole Brown. She's a 40-something woman who returns to college. 

[clip from show] Shirley: Um, but I think she needs to decide whether she wants to be considered a child. or an adult, because children get pity but not respect, and adults, they give respect, but they also get the back of their head grabbing their face pushed through jukeboxes. 

Caitlyn: She has two kids. She's just recently divorced, and she wants to start her own business, and so that's why she's at Greendale, to earn her degree, so she can start her business and reclaim her life.

We have Abed. 

[clip from show] Abed: Only half Arabic, actually. My dad is Palestinian. He's U.S. citizen, so he's not a threat to national security or anything. A lot of people want to know that after they meet him, because he has an angry energy, but now, like, angry at America, just angry at my mom for leaving, although, candidly, because he was angry and he was angry because she's American. My name's Abed, by the way.

Caitlyn: …played by Danny Pudi, who's a young Palestinian-American student whose father sent him to Greendale, so that way Abed can prepare to take over the family's deli, but Abed discovers a love for film and decides he wants to study film while at Greendale Community College much to his father's chagrin. 

And then the final student in the study group is Pierce, played by Chevy Chase.

[clip from show] Pierce: My name is Pierce Hawthorne, and yes, that is Hawthorne, as in Hawthorne wipes, the award-winning Moist Towelette.

Caitlyn: Pierce is a retired CEO of a moist towelette company. He returns to school for personal enrichment, and he likes to use his experiences in business and in life to try to support and mentor the study group with mixed results, shall we say? 

So those are the students. We also have the dean, Dean Pelton, played by Jim Rash. He's kind of a bumbling dean of the college, but he's working really hard to build an inclusive environment. He's trying to engage students. But, you know, he's an administrator, so he's also courting donors and managing resources.

And then we have Señor Chang played by Ken Jeong. He is the mercurial Spanish instructor who's really unorthodox methods confuse the class a lot. At the end of the season, we found out that, like Jeff, Señor Chang also does not have a degree in Spanish, and then has to start taking the classes as well.

So, true to life with community colleges, Heather, true to your experience, we've got age diversity here, we have racial and ethnic diversity here, we have a wide variety of life experiences that can feel true to life for many community college students. 

Heather: I actually… I have a… I kind of want to watch the show that you just talked about. You did a really good job of breaking every… of breaking down every character, and made it sound really funny, so if you thought what Caitlyn just talked about sounds funny, go check out the show, because she did a really good job of breaking it all down. 

Caitlyn: Thank you. I was trying to, like, get to the core of who are these students? What's their motivation? And what brings them to community college?

Now, something I will point out that is something we talked about in our class discussion about the pilot, is you'll notice a recurring theme amongst all the students, and that's community college was not their first choice. Greendale was not their first choice. They experienced some kind of setback or some kind of, in their mind, failure, and that is what has led them to enroll at Greendale, which isn't necessarily the case out there. A lot of students you know, community college is their first choice. Maybe it's the more affordable choice. Maybe it's the institution that's closest to home. Or, you know, maybe they're not gonna go the bachelor's degree route, and they're looking for technical education, which is referenced sometimes in the show, but none of our main characters are thinking about that first of mind. So, while it is a fair, I think, representation, at the same time, also, it kind of, right off the bat, is reinforcing that narrative that, like, nobody wants to go to community college, and they just all end up there because they couldn't make it happen somewhere else, which isn't the case and really isn't fair characterization. 

Heather: I really love that you're bringing that up, because I think that was the thing that stood out to me the most, is, yes, is community college is a great, you know, fresh start, redo, financial, you know, there's a lot of reasons you go to community college, but plenty of people choose community. for a lot of different reasons. I did, it's flexible, it's close, it's got, you know, courses at different times than, you know, helps working learners. It's, you know, often more convenient than kind of the traditional program if you don't have time to enroll full-time. So there's so many reasons, and I did notice that, too. It was like everybody was there, for sort of a… because the first time didn't go right, or their first choice wasn't the way it was gonna go, or that, you know, they're making up for something. And I just… I think that's kind of a… that's just a stereotype that I don't want to nip in the butt right now, of just that is the opposite of what community colleges. It's a great choice. It's an incredible choice for a lot of different reasons. Community colleges have so many different missions, and I actually think it could have been a more interesting show, frankly Dan, if you're listening, to really get into that, right? To get into what are the missions of this institution, and maybe they do in later seasons, but I'm forgetting, so I'll be fair to the show.

But I do think that this One of the things that's so great about being in the classroom at community college, and that richness of life experience that the students bring is that folks are there for all kinds of different reasons. Some folks are just taking courses just because they want to learn, and they're interested in taking courses. Others are wanting to transfer, others are, like you said, they, you know, want a job or getting a certificate or a credential for a job. And I think that even brings in a different level of richness that was maybe missing a little bit from the show for me.

Caitlyn: Yeah, I think so, too, and the pilot episode even opens up with this idea of Greendale not being a quote-unquote “real college,” I think it's a technique to quickly set the stage and introduce who we're dealing with, but the dean gets on the PA, and he's like, it's your first week at Greendale, so maybe you think of this as being a loser college. And then he starts to name all the character types, and of course the camera zooms in on each of our characters.

[clip from the show] Dean Peldon Uh, good morning! Uh, many of you are halfway through your first week here at Greendale, and uh, as your dean I thought I would share a few thoughts and wisdom and inspiration. What is community college? Well, you've heard all kinds of things. You've heard it’s loser college for remedial teams, 20-something dropouts, middle-age divorcees, and old people keeping their minds active as they circle the drain of eternity. That's what you heard! However, I wish you luck!

Caitlyn: watching that, I'm like, okay, wait a minute, are they, like, teeing this up to make fun of this idea? And I'm still a little unsure, so I'd love to talk more about that. I was like, What does this show appear to really believe about community colleges? Because, I mean, at different points, Jeff, who's kind of our main character, talks about, you know, he's not at real college, or, you know, making kind of disparaging comments about community college, and part of that might be his own shame of his circumstances of, you know, being disbarred, but then also, I'm like, where does the show believe this? So, I… yeah, that's something I'm really stuck on, is like, does the show actually believe that community colleges aren't quote-unquote real colleges?

Heather: I, you know, this is what… this is kind of what I was getting to in the beginning, is I do… I think…you know, I'm… I'm not Dan Harmon, so I can't… or speak to what his goals were, but that's the exact issue that I had with the first season in general is there's a heart there, there is a heart to, you know, this kind of ragtag group of different life experiences, like, find each other and get together and appreciate each other's differences, right? There's an arc of that. I… I kept reflecting back on this… the value, though, like, the value… the value of the human beings and the learners was there in that first episode, let's say, right? Like, we… by the end of the episode, you kind of… okay, we value these people. But I do think the value of community college and learning and this kind of… this, you know, place for everybody, the place that, like, actual learners of today, students of today are choosing

I just don't think… I think there was I get the under… I get the kind of opening of, let's… let's… tease, let's kind of pull people in by saying, like, loser, like, right off the bat, it just it hits me in the heart. Because, unfortunately, it's great to make jokes when something when you're, you know, making fun of like, the top dog. But when you're making fun of the underdog, then it's like it doesn't read as a joke to me anymore. Right? So, what I mean by that… Right, right. Yeah, what I mean by that is, like, it's almost… you can make fun of, like, Ivy League, or they'll kind of, like, the highfalutin stuff, because they're highfalutin, there's nothing to lose. They're already there. They got it. When you're… 

Caitlyn: They have all the power. 

Heather: All the power, thank you, you said it so well. And… but when you start to make fun of folks that, like, don't, or that aren't necessarily seen that way. you're almost, like, perpetuating the stereotype, and that's where I feel like the humor goes like this to me, is like, I'm sort of navigating this, like, are you making fun of them, or are you actually affectionate? And I think he's affectionate to them. Right. And I think he does walk that line. But I…I am very careful about that, because I do think that it's really hard to make a good joke about something that's not true, about kind of the underdog or the folks that don't have the power, or the institutions that don't. So that's the thing I keep coming to. 

Caitlyn: Yeah, you really put your finger on something that was on my mind a lot, too, is I'm like, I feel like a lot of these jokes are, you know, as they say, punching down, right? And like, okay, these are people who are already, you know, not getting the resources they need, you know community colleges often don't get the same level of funding as their public four-year counterparts do. You know, there's folks who are choosing community colleges because of their accessibility, because of their open admissions policy, and… and, like, why are you making fun of them, dude? Like, especially if you have an experience with community colleges, like, you know you should know, but here again, like you mentioned, there's a lot of love there, too. But, okay, so that's one thing that's been weighing on my mind a lot, too, is like, are we making fun of this? Are we punching down?

But then I also made this observation as we went along. So, just real quick, two of the texts we read for class, one is by John E. Conklin, published in 2008, it's called Campus Life in the Movies: a Critical Survey from the Silent Era to the Present. And this book is interesting, because Conklin sits down and watches every college movie from the beginning, like the silent film era through 2006, when he sat down to write the book. So if you ever want a comprehensive look at film in higher ed film, start there. And then Pauline Reynolds also wrote a book called Representing U. (the letter U, like, University, Representing U, Published in 2014, and she does a critical analysis of higher education in pop culture in general.

But something that came up in both of these texts was that when media is portraying higher education, colleges and universities, they don't emphasize the academic aspect, right? You see the football games, you see the parties, you see fraternity and sorority life, you see the social clubs, maybe you see the housing issues. I'm just thinking of Buffy and her demon roommate. You know. But you don't always see a lot of the academic piece of it.

But in Community, the academics play a huge role. You routinely see these characters in class, whether it's Spanish class, Jeff goes to Statistics. Shirley has a public speaking class, Abed takes his film classes, Annie gets to do some work with her psychology professor and his psychology lab, conducting research using human subjects. Hopefully they got IRB approval, but, you know, we can't get..that'll bore the audience. But you see all these situations where the students are in class, they're engaging with their faculty. You know, we have Abed and Troy in biology class training rats, and… and academics have high stakes for all the characters, too. You know, there's a lot of stress about, like, hey, are we gonna pass the Spanish final? Am I gonna do well on my speech? Are we gonna get the rat to do what he needs to do so I can get this grade. Um, and toward the end of the season, when it turns out Señor Chang maybe wasn't where he said he was,

and they bring in a different faculty member, there's a lot of angst amongst the group about, oh my gosh, the Spanish final, are we ready? And they're studying really hard, and then it shows them taking the test, and it shows them all passing, and Jeff's even like, this might throw off my four-year plan if I need to, you know. And so, like, this high-stakes academics. And we don't usually see that in any kind of film or TV, and so that tells me, wait a minute, they are taking this seriously, the showrunners, the creators, the writers, they are taking this seriously as college, because if they weren't, then it would be more of an emphasis on those extracurriculars.

And so that's what has me swinging back the other way. I'm like, wait a minute, you know, they do think this is real college, because look at all these quote-unquote real college things these students are doing. 

Heather: I love that. I… I… I really like that. One, have to maybe read that book, because it sounds amazing, but Two, I think you're right, I'm… as you were talking, I was thinking of some of the other shows that are set in community college, and you're right, the academic part is not the focus. There's not really been that type of  even study group, even though… even the kind of premise of the pilot of starting a study group that's literally about what's happening in the… in the feelings that they're having about their academic journey, right? I mean, I'm really, as an older student, I went back to school in my 30s. I was taking community college kind of forever, a class here and there.

But when I really seriously went back in 2010, I mean, I had an open… I… I was so insecure about my academic ability, right? I just… I hadn't taken a math class in 20 years, I wasn't very good at it. I had to take a bunch of, you know, prep classes to even get to a college level transferable course in math. English, I'd never been great at spelling, I'm really dyslexic. I actually discovered that at community college. And… and so the… the academic part brought a lot of anxiety, and I'm really appreciative of you shedding, shining that light on it, because that does give me definitely a more kind of appreciative, you know, it's not just about, you know, they're not just kind of focusing on that, that one thing.

And then I think the other part of it is that we talk about this already, but that diversity of experience of folks that are coming together and meeting people outside of your experience, seeing things from a different lens. I'm not saying that's everyone's community college experience, but it certainly is an opportunity when you're at community college to have that sort of eye-opening, learning about others, meeting folks that you wouldn't necessarily meet in your regular, you know, your normal, your everyday life. And so I think that also brings, kind of, that richness to it. 

Caitlyn: Yeah, absolutely. And when you talk about, like, the richness of experience, too, it was just so great to see, you know, it starts off as a study group, and then these characters really form bonds, and, you know, it becomes a plot point. Like I said, when they're studying for that high-stakes Spanish class, Annie (Allison Bree's character) wants everybody to fail, so that way they can keep taking Spanish together, because she doesn't want the group to stuff, so they end up all taking anthropology together in the next season. 

Heather: But just that kind of community and, like, a shared experience, sort of, that they can all buy into, and that they… they… A shared goal, a shared experience, and you know what's so funny? That makes me think that a lot of community colleges, a lot of community college students love their community college, and their community college experience, and don't want to leave on transfer, you know, sometimes we… we hear from students before they transfer to a four-year institution, or after they transfer, that they kind of wanted to stay at their community college because of those relationships, or because of that culture and that community that was developed, so that's really funny. I hadn't connected Allison Brie's character with that kind of real-life story that I heard often from many community college students. 

Caitlyn: That's so funny. Well, and it's so funny, too, because her character, when transfer comes up as an idea, it's usually related to her character, because, you know, her character, how she's gonna do community college, and then she's gonna transfer, and at one point, you know, Jeff even tells her, like, oh, well, you have to get along with the dean, he's gonna help you transfer, and there's… there's conversation about that, and then the season valley, the whole college has transfer day, where they're all celebrating their students who are moving on, and so it…

But then she has the hardest time wanting to leave, because she's so connected, because for her, you know, this Well, for all of them going to Greendale was their fresh start, but she… and you'll get to know throughout the season, she's really feeling that fresh start. You know, she can leave her high school persona behind and be a different person who is more in line with who she wants to be, and yeah, but then she's gonna transfer, too, so I guess I have to keep watching. We'll see what happens. The show goes on for five seasons, but I'm like, do they end up transferring, or do they hang out?

Heather: We have to know. You have to come back and tell us. There we go, because yeah, who knows, but I do… I do love that, and I do, they do…You're right, it's through the characters, they are showing, kind of, the different… everyone's there for a different reason. And that there are these different possibilities. So they do… they do shine some light on that in a really good way.

I'm curious, for you, if you… well, if Community were made today, in 2026 rather than 2009, when it started. What do you think it would look like? How would it be different?

Caitlyn: Yeah, so this is something I've thought about a lot, and not just with Community, but, like, all the shows and movies we watched for class. Like, if we were to make this now, what would this say? And I think it… I have this idea. I think it would be cool if we could film Community, but make it more like Abbott Elementary, right? Where there's jokes, there's hijinks, but then there's also a little bit of commentary happening under the surface. You know, at Abbott Elementary, it's these teachers at a lower-income school in Philadelphia, and their facing real issues that face our, you know, our K-12 education system, and it's funny, and there's ridiculous characters, and there's laughs for days, but then there's also this underlining current of okay, but let's look at this real thing that's happening critically, and I would love to see something like that with Community, about there's characters, there's hijinks, there's relationships, but also, maybe let's talk a little bit about community college and what brings people to community colleges. 

I… I don't think it could get away with punching down the same way these days. I feel like we have a lower tolerance for watching people be mean to other people, unless it's, like, reality TV, and then that's what you go for, but in our shows, we want to see more of that heart, and more… if you're gonna crack jokes, and if you're gonna be sharp, do it against the system, and not against the people. So, I'm like, I think that's what we would see.

And you see a little bit of this, I know The Paper just came out this year, and it looks at local journalism, or, you know, The Pitt isn’t in a comedy, but The Pitt has that commentary running under the surface, really looking at our healthcare system with a critical eye. I kind of think that's what it would be. 

And something my classmates were talking about in our seminar is you know, we'd probably see more international students. You mentioned your friend the international student. You probably see more international students if Communitywere recorded today, you would see more students for whom community college would be their first choice, you know, for all the reasons we've talked about. More dual enrollment students, too. My classmate Jully pointed out, she's like, you know what? Based on her experience and what she's seen, too, more and more community college students are still in high school, and they might even be taking their classes at the community college. And can you just imagine, like, the comedy you can bring in if you've got Pierce and you've got a high schooler, and, you know, Pierce was kind of problematic in a lot of ways, so his character would be different now. But, like, just if you have an even broader range of experiences to draw from, I think it could be really funny. 

Heather: On the nose, Caitlyn, I couldn't agree more. From the system… from the system part, like, let's, let's, like, let's get to that tension of these systems were built… weren't built for the students that are using them. That's the… that's, to me, where the drama is, or where the, like, the, uh, tension and pinch point is, and there's an opportunity there. And I do think it would be probably more political, or more… a little bit more pointed today. And then, I love this, because there's now, you know, transfer and community college student definitions are huge, right? Like, there's so many different ways to look at it.

Now, we have this new type of transfer, which is, like, the dual enrollment student who's coming into college, who went to community college and then is coming into a four-year college, potentially with you know, two semesters of… or two full years, sometimes, of credit. I also think, and I think you were probably getting there, but I think maybe it would be refreshing to see it through… not see it through the eyes of a white guy who's sort of allowing everyone to think of themselves as a community. Like, he… I remember a scene where he's like, And now, and you are a community! and I was like, thank you, Sir, for allowing us all to feel like a community, because you have dubbed it, you know, I mean, there's that frame, right? We talked about people in power. There's that, you know, white dude frame where it's like, okay, because you are doing this, we, you know, we exist. And I… I think that would be way different now, because I think we would either acknowledge it, you know, like, with the character who's so inappropriate, like, it would be brought up a lot, and it would either be sort of a mirror to the person, Or it would just change, you know, it would just be completely different. Especially, like, the neurodiversity jokes that are made. There's some real harsh stuff in there that just would not fly today.

Caitlyn: No, no, and it's, again, kind of that… that punching down, and yeah, there were definitely a few things they were saying that I was like, ooh, yeah, that's not okay, and we hadn't figured out how to say that was not okay in 2009, or it wouldn't stand now.

Heather: So I think that's… I mean, I know it's tough in comedy, like, you have, you know, have to be free to, like, make fun of everybody, like, there does have to be a freedom in there, and I'm not you know, denying that in any sense, but yeah, I think it's a it would just be a different branding today. But I like your… I like your Abbott Elementary idea. Maybe a producer's listening, they should recreate a… or not recreate, create a new show about community college, but that's set at a… that's similar to Abbott Elementary, but set at a community college. That would be really cool. I would… I would watch that show. 

Caitlyn: I also think you can spin this into a little bit of a different direction by… so the great thing about the higher education program I'm in is there are folks from all different walks of life, you know, we have folks who are practitioners, folks who are more on the academic side, folks who are on the student affairs side, folks in housing, folks who are with first-gen students, folks who work with fraternity-sorority life. And one thing they pointed out routinely is there's just not a lot of shows or TVs about the staff people who work in higher ed altogether. I mean, this year, or a few years ago, we saw The Chair with Sandra Oh, and that looks at faculty and, you know, relations with faculty administration. 

Heather: But again, elite university, not, you know, it was a very specific way of looking at things. 

Caitlyn: Absolutely. So we thought we would watch a show, maybe set in this case, it could be a community college, or maybe, like, a regional public university, or something like that, and it follows the staff members around. So you have, you know, a residence hall director, and you have a lead for student involvement, and you've got… and you know, and you can shed light on these different areas of the staff, because that's one thing they pointed out. They're like, when we talk about whose voices are missing, it's the staff, it's the professionals, it's the advisors, it's, you know, in this case of Community, it's, let me help you transfer your credits, and then you can have some real fun where you have a ridiculous four-year school who's not gonna accept credits. Or, you know, maybe the dean is running into more and more issues because they need funding for this, but, you know, they have some, like, in the vein of Parks and Rec, they have some ridiculous townspeople who are not on board, and so yeah, we all decided we want to see a show about the staff who work in higher education. 

Heather: Me too! I want that show, because it also then shows that it shines a light on the systems, and the systems being built for the reality that we're in. And there would be so much, there would be so many places you could go with focusing on the staff, and they're there, right? So, like, the students travel, the students move, and students are mobile, which is why we need systems that are built for to make it easier and not harder for students who are mobile. But if you've focused on the staff of a community college, then you got a couple seasons in you, I think.

Caitlyn: Yeah, I think so, too. Someone once told me that the faculty and the staff is where institutional memory lives, because the students, like you said, they move in, they move out, they graduate, they transfer, they move on, but it's your employees that kind of keep…you can make an argument that that's what the institution is, it's the group of people together serving the students, rather than the buildings, or the lore, or the traditions, or, you know, it's the people within them, and so I think that could be really interesting.

Heather: Yeah, yeah, me too. So, as we're thinking, as we're kind of rounding out the conversation and wrapping up, and are there any aspects that we haven't talked about that you would want to bring up, or… or to delve into? 

Caitlyn: Something I'm super curious about, if you'll indulge me, Heather, is that I know you have a background working in TV and film before you went full time back to school, and are now the transfer champion, Doctor of Education that you are. I'm just so curious to know, how does your work, your previous work, inform how you approach film and media? And, like, does it change your lens at all, like, or offer you a different lens than you know, your identity as a scholar-practitioner does?

Heather: Such a good question. And thank you for asking. Yes, I… in my previous life, I was an actor for about 20 years, and, you know, I've told this story a little bit that community college is where I found my professional purpose and my home, and… and I had a great… I loved acting, I got to meet a ton of different people, and travel, and I also was an acting coach for many, many years. And I like this, like, how does it change the framing? So I think what it… well, I think it's a couple different things. One, it was that insider-outsider thing that we talked at the very beginning. So one of the things I came into higher ed as a total outsider. And so I would say the first way that it changed the way that I lead or view things, is I had no preconceptions.

Like, I had left high school the day after high school graduation, so I moved to LA, I dabbled in community college, but I had, I was not… I was so new to it. And so I had no… I had no built-up ideas of how things should be. And that was so refreshing, and I think I got… I think I actually got away with a lot and pushed a lot forward, because I was clueless, right? And you have a… you have a little bit of time as a new person in something to, like, you know, fumble around before you, you know, before somebody's like, that's not okay. But actually, I think that was part of what made it really easy for me to slide into the role of transfer advocate is because I didn't understand why it was set up the way it was set up, and why it wouldn't be set up to make things easier, not harder, right? And so I think that insider-outsider lens was really useful. 

Also, the entertainment industry is really casual. And Loosey Goosey, and not formal, and so I also think I have an energy coming into the spaces that might be a little bit different, maybe a little disarming sometimes, if it's a kind of a specific type of group who is more formal, but it allowed me to just, you know, be a little bit more human with people, a little bit more, like, you know, and that was actually not, you know, It's actually a strategy, right? It's actually a leadership tactic. It's not necessarily loosey-goosey, it's maybe on purpose to kind of have people, you know, we're all human. Like, you're talking to a college president, you're talking to a student, we all eat tacos, right? Or we all, like, love dogs, or whatever. Whatever the thing is that unites us. And I think sometimes we walk through the doorframes of institutions of higher education, and we forget that a little bit. We forget, we kind of, you know, and I think…so, it was really cool to be able to come from an industry that's completely about being wackadoodle and joining the circus, and all about people, and it's, you know, narratives, into this world that is also about that, but sometimes forgets it is.

Caitlyn: Yeah. Yeah, sometimes forget it is, you're right, you're right. Oh, that's so interesting! 

Heather: And then the other thing I know I do, because Steve was telling me this the other day. I don't know everything I watch now, I watch through a lens of, like, First Gen, adult learner. Got it. Sounds like a community college narrative, so I'm always sort of thinking that, or, like, texting my friend, oh, we keep track of these things, and being like, okay, we gotta add this show to the list, right? You know, like, Industry, it's a first-gen story.

You know, this kind of, you know, things, but on another note, not having to do with higher ed, I… we watched Station Eleven, we watched Station Eleven this weekend, which I really love. I think it's on Apple TV, if people haven't seen it. Or no, it's on HBO, but it's so good. And I cannot watch a show without thinking about the technique behind it, right? So, like, I am always… I'm like, did you see how that was shot? Do you know that the camera was, like, down here and the angle was up, and I'm always talking about the camera angles, or the cinematography, or, like, you know, we were watching one show, and it was… it was a study cam, and they didn't do one cut. They didn't cut the scene at all, and I was like, that's so awesome for actors, because it feels like you're doing a play, and you know, so I do, I'm… I'm not sure if that's fun to watch things with or not, but I'm always thinking about all the work that it took to get there, to tell that magical story. 

Caitlyn: Oh, that's so interesting. You know, I've wondered about that. If you're, you know, you have, like, behind-the-scenes knowledge that informs how you watch things. 

Heather: And continuity! I always notice if the cigarette was in one hand and then is another, or, like, they had their cup of or not, but that's… I think a lot of people do that, but that's also, like,

something I look for. 

Caitlyn: Because you were there, and you had to keep track of those things when you were making your choices as an actor! Well, and I think your point about knowing how things gets made, sometimes when you end up watching these things, watching these stories, whether it's TV, whether it's film. We're looking at it as an art form, right? It's a piece of art that's made, or in the case of this seminar, we looked a lot of these things as cultural texts. And we're looking at the product itself. But also, this is, like, a commercial product, too, right? And there's this whole industry around selling these texts and these pieces of art, too, which then influence how they get made, and maybe it's just because I watched the Oscars last night, it's fresh of mind about…While these are stories, and they're human stories, and people like Dan Harmon want to put together a show that reflects on some kind of experience and involves the people in his own life, at the end of the day, too, it's a commercial product that's meant to be sold and consumed, and, you know, the cynic in me can really get going with the capitalism of it all. And so that's just something I've learned through this study, is, like, keeping those two things in mind is, like, the product itself and the economic decisions behind them, and so, yeah, when you talked about how you can't turn off knowing how something gets made, while I don't have that personal experience, it's something I've been thinking a lot, too, about, like, oh, why did they decide to do that? Oh, they decided to do that, so that way their audience would….So…

Heather: Yeah, right. So, so true. And I think that's why it makes it so, so critical to critically engage with, you know, these TV shows or movies, because it's not just entertainment, right? It's about asking, what are the stories, what are the…there it is, you know, and what are we normalizing? And what are… and are we telling stories that really make more students feel like higher education is a place that they belong? Or not, right? 

And just to kind of bring it back to Community, and bring it back to kind of that higher ed lens is, yeah, it's a commercial product, but because it's a commercial product, it has a lot of influence, and so that's the… that kind of brings it back to that importance that it is to kind of think about these things when you're writing them, when you're producing them. Or just watching them. 

Caitlyn: It's so easy for executives to dismiss areas, like, oh, well, no one will want to watch a show about community college, no one will want to watch a show, so we need to keep it in all the myths, and I think what we're proving here is, like, No, there's an appetite for stories that haven't yet been told, or haven't been told as much.

Yeah, it's… it's real, so… and… and we're starting to see that kind of turn, especially in the age of streaming, where people can just access whatever they want, and there is an audience for any show out there. You're not limited to whatever's on network at, you know, 8.30 on a Thursday when Community initially aired, or whatever time it was.

Heather: Exactly. Well, and we'll put this in the story notes, but, you know, the Catalyst Awards that kind of spotlights first-gen, transfer, and adult learner stories, has lists and lists of books, movies, films, documentaries, podcasts, Instagram accounts that focus in different ways through pop culture and media on those communities and those narratives. So we'll make sure to put that in in case you are interested in… and if you're like Caitlyn and I, and you want to, like, you watch every show and are like, oh, I think that person went to community college, or I think that was meant to be an adult learner narrative when we care to list those below in the show notes. But, Caitlyn, this was amazing. Can we continue the conversation once you watch Season 2, please? 

Caitlyn: Absolutely, absolutely! Oh my gosh, this has just been so great to, well, one thing, be a place where I can bring all my thoughts and all the things I've been feeling, you know, I brought them to class, and now I'm bringing them to Transfer Nation, but also, I just… I've really enjoyed hearing more about your personal experience, too, and because, you know, I've known you for a while now, but I always love hearing your story and hearing you share about the various hats you've worn over the years, too. You know, I really appreciate this opportunity. 

Heather: I appreciate you asking! I really appreciate that. I never got to audition for Community, so there was that. But yeah, it was a really… it was an incredible experience, and while I found my purpose and meaning in community college transfer, you know, it was… it was fun being part of the circus for a while, for sure. 

Caitlyn: Completely. Well, again, thanks so much for Let me come on and chat community and think through some of these things. It's been really great. I've had a great time.

Heather: Me too. Thanks, Caitlyn. 

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